Blowers...

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Re: Blowers...

Postby 69Goat1 » Tue May 26, 2009 8:57 pm

You can get it both ways but if you run a damper it better be a good one. Mine has a damper and the big 15/16 headed bolt I have is about 2x longer than stock and holds the hub and then the hub holds the damper to the crank and the keyway keeps the damper in position... the factory 4 bolt pulley setup can then be used...

If you go High horsepower (more than 15 psi) then you can double keyway the crank snout and just use a hub that has the belt grooves machined into it... I am only looking at 12 psi or so max but that is all I need at this point to get back and forth to work :wink:
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Re: Blowers...

Postby critter » Tue May 26, 2009 8:58 pm

Send me some of that money tree fertilizer. I need it! :mrgreen:
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Re: Blowers...

Postby Pontova » Tue May 26, 2009 10:59 pm

69Goat1 wrote:You can get it both ways but if you run a damper it better be a good one. Mine has a damper and the big 15/16 headed bolt I have is about 2x longer than stock and holds the hub and then the hub holds the damper to the crank and the keyway keeps the damper in position... the factory 4 bolt pulley setup can then be used...

If you go High horsepower (more than 15 psi) then you can double keyway the crank snout and just use a hub that has the belt grooves machined into it... I am only looking at 12 psi or so max but that is all I need at this point to get back and forth to work :wink:

Ha Ha you must be joking, if you put 12 psi boost on top of 9.0 to 9.5-1 compression the "Dynamic" compression jumps to 16.3 to 17.3-1 so you must like walking to work? crackwhip

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Re: Blowers...

Postby 69Goat1 » Wed May 27, 2009 8:04 pm

Pontova wrote:
69Goat1 wrote:You can get it both ways but if you run a damper it better be a good one. Mine has a damper and the big 15/16 headed bolt I have is about 2x longer than stock and holds the hub and then the hub holds the damper to the crank and the keyway keeps the damper in position... the factory 4 bolt pulley setup can then be used...

If you go High horsepower (more than 15 psi) then you can double keyway the crank snout and just use a hub that has the belt grooves machined into it... I am only looking at 12 psi or so max but that is all I need at this point to get back and forth to work :wink:

Ha Ha you must be joking, if you put 12 psi boost on top of 9.0 to 9.5-1 compression the "Dynamic" compression jumps to 16.3 to 17.3-1 so you must like walking to work? crackwhip


We will see... I like being told what I can't do aand what won't work :frogwink:
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Re: Blowers...

Postby Pontova » Wed May 27, 2009 10:21 pm

69Goat1 wrote:
Pontova wrote:
69Goat1 wrote:You can get it both ways but if you run a damper it better be a good one. Mine has a damper and the big 15/16 headed bolt I have is about 2x longer than stock and holds the hub and then the hub holds the damper to the crank and the keyway keeps the damper in position... the factory 4 bolt pulley setup can then be used...

If you go High horsepower (more than 15 psi) then you can double keyway the crank snout and just use a hub that has the belt grooves machined into it... I am only looking at 12 psi or so max but that is all I need at this point to get back and forth to work :wink:

Ha Ha you must be joking, if you put 12 psi boost on top of 9.0 to 9.5-1 compression the "Dynamic" compression jumps to 16.3 to 17.3-1 so you must like walking to work? crackwhip


We will see... I like being told what I can't do aand what won't work :frogwink:

Right On! The proofs in the pudding! Trust me I know how much it means to you to make this work, I just wanted to point out the pitfalls of detonation in a forced induction engine. I'd hate to see any Pontiac die especially the one in the "Punisher"! Good Luck! JD

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Re: Blowers...

Postby 69Goat1 » Sat May 30, 2009 12:21 am

It's ALIVE boo-yahPicked up my Intake from the machine shop at 5:00 and busted this dude off about 8:00... I'm gonna need a better engine tiedown system because this dude plain rocks :bat:!!!



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Re: Blowers...

Postby critter » Sat May 30, 2009 7:24 am

It sure is pretty. Now, go have fun.
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Re: Blowers...

Postby Pontova » Sat May 30, 2009 11:24 pm

You must have started it without the radiator, hoses, and linkage just to see if it had fire? I was shocked to see you had the Edelbrock carbs on there after all the PY guys said you should be running the two HP1000's. FWIW, the forced induction engines only handle around 28-32 on the total timing and must be closely monitored. Just setting the "Initial" 20 degrees as your tried and true method won't cut it. The thing looks WICKED sitting there now if it performs it will be killer! Good or Bad keep us updated; Good Luck! JD

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Re: Blowers...

Postby 69Goat1 » Sun May 31, 2009 12:19 am

yea - my buddy wanted to hear it and so did I so we ran it about 5 minutes last night. It has an MSD Pro Billet with no vacuum advance and the heavy spring set-up in it and is about 10 initial right now still on 91 octane pump gas. The Edelbrock carbs seem to work pretty well and it will fire and idle without touching the gas after an initial start. My water pump I had rebuilt has not come in yet so I am still awaiting that... For cruising around I think the E-carbs will work fine and when it comes time for the track I will switch to the HP's.

It is wicked quick on the throttle and has that nice blower whine to it... Setting the belt to run centered on the blower pulleys was a snap and I bought another low mount Alt Bracket for the drivers side. Should be good to cruise by next weekend... on better fuel :clap:
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Re: Blowers...

Postby 69Goat1 » Sun May 31, 2009 9:32 pm

Pontova wrote:You must have started it without the radiator, hoses, and linkage just to see if it had fire? I was shocked to see you had the Edelbrock carbs on there after all the PY guys said you should be running the two HP1000's. FWIW, the forced induction engines only handle around 28-32 on the total timing and must be closely monitored. Just setting the "Initial" 20 degrees as your tried and true method won't cut it. The thing looks WICKED sitting there now if it performs it will be killer! Good or Bad keep us updated; Good Luck! JD


Everything is hooked up now and per the BDS website here is what they have to say about timing...

"What should my timing be set at? Blower systems work best when the ignition system is advanced. For most blower applications, the initial timing should be set at 16-24 degrees initial advance with a total of 32-36 degrees advance, in all by 2500-2800 RPM. More advance can be run if there is not a detonation problem. Some vacuum advance systems will have as much as 45-50 degrees total advance under part throttle, cruise conditions. "

And in another place...

"Blown motors love advance. Without enough initial timing advance, blown motors will run hot and the exhaust pipes will glow in the dark. Blown motors should run as little as 16 degrees or as much as 26 degrees initial advance with the total advance of about 32-36 degrees at 2500 RPM to 3000 RPM. Specific timing requirements depend on compression, blower drive ratio, engine load, camshaft, and fuel octane."
Last edited by 69Goat1 on Sun May 31, 2009 9:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Blowers...

Postby Pontova » Sun May 31, 2009 9:39 pm

69Goat1 wrote:
Pontova wrote:You must have started it without the radiator, hoses, and linkage just to see if it had fire? I was shocked to see you had the Edelbrock carbs on there after all the PY guys said you should be running the two HP1000's. FWIW, the forced induction engines only handle around 28-32 on the total timing and must be closely monitored. Just setting the "Initial" 20 degrees as your tried and true method won't cut it. The thing looks WICKED sitting there now if it performs it will be killer! Good or Bad keep us updated; Good Luck! JD


Everything is hooked up now and per the BDS website here is what they have to say about timing...

"What should my timing be set at? Blower systems work best when the ignition system is advanced. For most blower applications, the initial timing should be set at 16-24 degrees initial advance with a total of 32-36 degrees advance, in all by 2500-2800 RPM. More advance can be run if there is not a detonation problem. Some vacuum advance systems will have as much as 45-50 degrees total advance under part throttle, cruise conditions. "


I have to say these timing parameters would be accurate to someone building an engine with the proper compression ratio to work with the forced induction. Just saying, your trying to boost on the edge of disaster so I'm suggesting a very conservative amount of timing be used; It's all fun and games until something gets hurt. Back when Horsepower TV built the blown 440 mopar with aluminum heads the engine lost power when they tried timing above IIRC 30 degrees. LIke any tuning it may be vastly different from engine to engine, not to mention makes/models, plus the differences in combustion chamber design with the perspective flame travels. Try to take it slow and easy so this will be fun! JD

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Re: Blowers...

Postby 69Goat1 » Sun May 31, 2009 9:57 pm

"Blown motors love advance. Without enough initial timing advance, blown motors will run hot and the exhaust pipes will glow in the dark. Blown motors should run as little as 16 degrees or as much as 26 degrees initial advance with the total advance of about 32-36 degrees at 2500 RPM to 3000 RPM. Specific timing requirements depend on compression, blower drive ratio, engine load, camshaft, and fuel octane."

I agree it is a learning curve... I know I need a better cooling system as this thing gets hot quick but I had my timing backed up pretty bad - I don't have a fan on it yet either...
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Re: Blowers...

Postby 69Goat1 » Mon Jun 01, 2009 11:04 pm

Well I have about got everything lined out now... the 650 E-carbs are too small for my application having done a back to back running them and my HP's... The HP 1000's jetted 84 square and 18 degrees initial timing keep the temps at 190-195 in my shop with no outside airflow. Now I have to come up with a sideways Holley throttle linkage and I am good to go. I also switched the pulleys and am running 3% underdriven right now as well but the difference between 3% overdriven and 3% underdriven was 5 degrees water temp... I will try to get pics tomorrow night...
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Re: Blowers...

Postby 69Goat1 » Wed Jun 03, 2009 9:59 pm

Here is a pic with the HP's... glad I ended up with a 2nd one when I did that deal with David Holmberg - worked out just right - Linkages here tomorrow...

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Re: Blowers...

Postby Vanmor » Wed Jun 03, 2009 11:05 pm

Hollys ? Now we're talking!
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Re: Blowers...

Postby 69Goat1 » Sat Jun 13, 2009 11:34 pm

Well I have a few miles on the blower now and I have a few observations...

1st off the HP is insane :shock:Torque is really insane :shock:

2nd off is it is much smoother driving down the highway than before - no little pops and stuff like before. The solid roller I have seems to work real well with the blower and even at 10.2:1 compression it all works together real nice.

3rd - I had heard that only blown cars with alcohol injection have a surge idle and that is absolutely false!!! Mine has a really mean surge in gear and is exactly what I always wanted for sound between blower whine and surge :clap:

I drove it to Fort Gibsons cruise night last night and had a hoot and got bored this evening and drove it up to Tahlequah and hung out for awhile "grandpa:- I found a couple old buddies of mine and we sat and shot the breeze on the 4 lane for a few hours and had CARLOADS of kids coming by to take cell phone pics and talk about the GTO. I cruised "Downing a few times and had about every late model mustang and diesel pickup in town next to me at one time or another revvving on me but a light tap to the throttle quietened em all right down.

Blown street cars are a lot of fun :sunny:
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Re: Blowers...

Postby 69Goat1 » Fri Mar 26, 2010 11:18 pm

Well it's been a while but just a little update... I took the shiny BDS 6-71 off and replaced it with an old Ed Pink 8-71 Magnesium blower... So far I like it. The 8-71 makes my car run cooler by about 20 degrees and It is even more insane than it was before with a throttle tap... I can hardly wait to run it down a track even though it is still untuned :mrgreen:

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Re: Blowers...

Postby critter » Sat Mar 27, 2010 5:26 am

It's not as pretty but still, wow!
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Re: Blowers...

Postby 77TA » Sat Mar 27, 2010 8:33 pm

critter wrote:It's not as pretty but still, wow!


Agreed the other one was prettier.
They do make a statement no matter the shine or no shine... 8)
Guy here has a shiney one on his old vette.
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Re: Blowers...

Postby Vanmor » Sat Mar 27, 2010 10:41 pm

I disagree. I think the Ed Pink blower looks all buisness on Punisher. Punisher is a no nonsense type of car and the mag blower goes with that attitude. Let the Vettes have the shiney blowers. : )
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