4L80e transmission swap

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Re: 4L80e transmission swap

Postby critter » Tue Mar 23, 2010 8:46 am

After my long hiatus I decided to fire the car up last night and check the pressure readings. At 2000 RPM I was seeing roughly 140 psi. I had another profile I built where I increased the line/load pressure by 10 percent. I loaded it and took another reading. I was up about 5 psi at 2000 RPM. So I'm thinking that with 145 psi at 2000 rpm I should test drive this thing again.

I still want to do one other thing. Jake suggested changing that table so it went to full line pressure right off idle just to see what psi readings I get. I think I'll build that one and run it, then return it to where I have the settings now before I drive it again.
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Re: 4L80e transmission swap

Postby Vanmor » Tue Mar 23, 2010 7:37 pm

Chris this makes me wonder about something. Is there a minimum and maximum pressure for each gear ?

In the computer program, is there just a table that you plug numbers into ? Just Curious.
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Re: 4L80e transmission swap

Postby critter » Tue Mar 23, 2010 8:08 pm

I wish I could tell you. No one has given me "optimal" numbers on pressure yet. I think that's still a gray area for the tuners. It seems to vary from car to car and the owner's taste from what I can tell.

There are multiple related tables in the program. All of them are based on numbers. The one I'm tweaking is the load/line pressure table. For example, there are other tables that control shift points VS TPS position, torque converter lock up, etc.
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Re: 4L80e transmission swap

Postby Vanmor » Tue Mar 23, 2010 8:39 pm

Wow ! Those are a lot of parameters to consider. Good Luck !
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Re: 4L80e transmission swap

Postby critter » Tue Mar 23, 2010 8:54 pm

Lots of tuning opportunities = lots of opportunity for me to screw it up. confused2
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Re: 4L80e transmission swap

Postby critter » Mon Mar 29, 2010 8:29 pm

I'm back at it. Just wanted to let the viewing public know that I built another table where it should apply full line pressure at anything over 13 percent TPS. Sure enough, I was seeing 170-180 psi in drive when I did that. I had the car on jack stands. I still haven't driven it. I'm thinking I'll drop in the last profile that was showing 140 psi at 2000 RPM and take a quick jaunt soon.
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Re: 4L80e transmission swap

Postby Vanmor » Mon Mar 29, 2010 8:48 pm

Chris I hope that table works out for you.

You know, it seems they would have a base table that works for normal driving. I mean when these vehicles come off the assembly line with these transmissions, I'm sure their computers are set to some basic factory specs. So it seems logical there would be some base settings for the transmission contoller.
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Re: 4L80e transmission swap

Postby critter » Mon Mar 29, 2010 9:07 pm

I suspect there is for a given combination. The problem is, who ever heard of a 1974 Pontiac with a 462ci motor using one of these electronic transmissions designed for modern motors and chassis? See what I'm saying? I bet money that had my car been a first generation Camaro with a small block what TCI gave me would have been in the ball park. Doing Pontiacs (or Mopar, or AMC or Buick or etc..) ain't easy.
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Re: 4L80e transmission swap

Postby Vanmor » Mon Mar 29, 2010 9:36 pm

I see your point. A lot more torque in the big motors.

But wait, what about the diesel engines ? Maybe one of the parameters set for those would work with a big Pontiac ?
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Re: 4L80e transmission swap

Postby critter » Tue Mar 30, 2010 5:34 am

That's a very good point. There are strong similarities in a Pontiac motor and how one of those diesel motors look to a transmission. I guess the real issue is getting a technical support person who is smart enough to realize what a traditional Pontiac motor is and how to program for it.
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Re: 4L80e transmission swap

Postby Vanmor » Tue Mar 30, 2010 11:19 am

Hmmmmmmm.......

Looks like I need to hit the truck forums again. Maybe research the different diesel engines that use the 4L80e.

Let you know what I find.
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Re: 4L80e transmission swap

Postby Vanmor » Sat Apr 03, 2010 6:05 pm

The programing I've found resembles the old Basic commands. Looooong lines of commands.

The diesel guys on the various forums don't care to much for the TCI controller. The claim is it's not supported very well and the software is quirky.
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Re: 4L80e transmission swap

Postby critter » Sat Apr 03, 2010 8:00 pm

Not supported well, yes. Not by TCI anyway. The guys at Power Train Solutions who supply it to TCI seemed very nice but I've not gone back to them. I just jumped in and did the research on my own. Lots of folks liked it before the goobs at TCI took over. I figure it's a typical situation where a major vendor takes over, one guy goes to school for a week and trains the rest. Nobody knows a damn thing except the original company that has one guy who wrote it all. :crackup:

Tomorrow is the day. I fixed a couple of things today and intended to drive it this afternoon but the yard project Tammy had for me took longer than I expected. Cross your fingers for me.
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Re: 4L80e transmission swap

Postby Vanmor » Sat Apr 03, 2010 10:59 pm

Are these the same people ?

http://www.powertraincontrolsolutions.com/

Some of the diesel guys swear by these folks. If the controller is the same as the TCI, then it's just a matter of support. I agree on the one guy in the shop theory. Been there and done that. Meaning I was the one guy in the shop with the info on some doodad the company bought.


Chris, if anybody can get it going, I'm sure you can. I have looked around but it seems most people would like a plug and play type of deal. I'm like that too, but there are always those who want to do some tweaking.
I haven't found the tweakers yet.
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Re: 4L80e transmission swap

Postby critter » Tue Apr 06, 2010 9:08 pm

Same guys and yes, they seem to know their product.

Have you ever had a project that pushed you to the edge of selling it all and buying a KIa?

You've all been privy to my struggles with the 4L80e transmission swap. I got so frustrated that I parked it in my garage and left it for a while. The crazy part was, when I did what I thought was right and quit listening to TCI (they sell the transmission control unit made by Powertrain Control Solutions) it seemed much better. That involved making major changes to the table that controlled the throttle position sensor VS line pressure. Of course my opinion was based on my putting it on the trailer and pulling it off the trailer and into the garage.

So I figured I'd take a break from flailing at the transmission and install the electronic gauges. What the heck, that would be fairly non-invasive and allow me to still keep moving forward, right? Wrong. I put it all together and the new electronic tach didn't budge. Oh, and the temperature gauge I wanted to retain didn't work either. I decided that I'd swap my known, good working oil pressure/temperature gauge into the modified cluster. That was no big deal The tach manufacturer was called regarding the non-functioning tach. After a few tests it was returned to them for repair.

I bought a Speedhut Revolution series speedometer and tachometer because they could be fitted to the stock dash bezel without modification. In that respect, they work as advertised. Today the repaired tach came back and I went to work. Sure enough, this time it powered up and I was able to set the shift point and the progressive lights leading to the shift point. It even allowed me to set the brightness level.

Then I fired up the car. At roughly 2000 RPM and up it was steady and showed the progressive shift lights as advertised. At idle it bounced like Tigger from Whinny The Pooh on a combined caffeine and sugar rush. Hey, no big deal, I'll cut that purple loop wire that they say to cut if you have excessive electronic noise and and erratic needle. So I did. Now it reads the idle just swell. Of course it won't read any RPM over about 2500 but, hey, you can't have everything, can you?

LOL.

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(gotta laugh at this point)
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Re: 4L80e transmission swap

Postby RamAirDave » Tue Apr 06, 2010 9:15 pm

critter wrote:(gotta laugh at this point)


Yeah, sometimes you just have to. There are some days when everything fights you no matter what, and then the next day you revisit the same task and it's cake. But damn, you've been having a lot of those days in a row. "brickwall"

If you need any help, borrow the lift, whatever, you know we'll help you out.
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Re: 4L80e transmission swap

Postby critter » Tue Apr 06, 2010 9:25 pm

I do appreciate that. At this point I'm content to keep fighting the dragon where she lives. I just had to share so anyone else who goes through this knows that sometimes it's normal. You know. Anyone who's worked on this type of stuff knows. You can't get in a hurry or force it. That is the nature of the beast, isn't it?

I need to drop by the shop and deliver something. Will you be there around 5:30 or so tomorrow?
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Re: 4L80e transmission swap

Postby RamAirDave » Tue Apr 06, 2010 10:23 pm

critter wrote:I need to drop by the shop and deliver something. Will you be there around 5:30 or so tomorrow?


Yeah, should be.
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Re: 4L80e transmission swap

Postby Vanmor » Tue Apr 06, 2010 11:55 pm

Ok Chris. I agree. Sometimes you just want to set fire to the project and laugh a demented laugh.

Today I broke a rod on my riding mower. Looked and I had no or very low oil. How the heck did that happen ?
I obviously didn't winterize my mower like I thought. I must have drained the oil back in October and got distracted somehow. Came back and shut off the drain and put the mower up.

Then, my poor little blind Shizu was outside and loving it. She laid in the clover and was happy feeling the breeze. After the mower fiasco I looked around for Cassie and she was no where to be seen. Checking with the neighbors and looking around the neighborhood for three hours revealed no puppy dog.

I sit here feeling double stupid for trashing a 16.5 hp engine on my mower and then losing a blind dog. How the hell does this happen ?

Lets all hear a big DUH for Vance. Sheesh.
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Re: 4L80e transmission swap

Postby critter » Wed Apr 07, 2010 5:55 am

Sorry to hear your troubles man. At least you can fix the mower. I'd hate to lose one of my pups. They're like family.
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